Hey Truck People!

"Groagun" (groagun) 02/25/2016 at 17:22 • Filed to: None

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How many of you know what this is and who put that badge on what vehicle?

Maybe this will help:

I’m sure many of you knew right off the bat but I’m wiling to bet that most people have either totally forgotten that GM produced a hybrid pick up truck, or have no idea at all to begin with.

Some of that will depend on your age, although it wasn’t that long a go, and for some of you it’s because you never did, do not now or will ever care about hybrid trucks in any form what so ever.

Let’s make no ‘if ands or buts about it’, this truck was as close to a complete failure as one can find. I think this truck exemplifies perfectly how GM has approached the entire electrification of vehicles since the demise of the EV1.

1996! That was the first year you could buy an EV1. By 2003, it was killed. It feels like a life time a go. But understand this: you’re not just looking at the EV1, it’s the Prius before the Prius.

In terms of electric car fandom and fervent zeal, there is the time before Prius and the time after Prius. It is the ‘Holy Grail’ of electric or hybrid cars. The one that laid the path to what we have today, the car that blew open the whole industry that cannot be stopped now.

Well that’s sort of over stating things a bit but you get what I mean. Turning back to trucks, pick ups to be exact, we have this today from of all people, GM! !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

I’ve never fully understood the opposition(OPPO) to hybrid or electrified trucks of any kind. As trucks in general have become some of the, if not the most expensive vehicles on the road and in show rooms today, a hybrid option would seem to be a mere after thought regarding the bottom line.

For large SUV’s like Escalades or Range Rovers, G Wagons and XC90's, the price is already in the stratosphere and another $5-$10K is really nothing. With pick ups, for the most part, that’s a slightly different equation.

I think the price of pick ups today is outrageous, but you guys just keep buying them by the boat load. Need or want, that’s the main factor I have quibbles about but truthfully, it’s a free country and I love the fact you can buy what ever you want or can afford.

I can’t help but wonder however, if this little 1st Gen system is the EV1 of pick ups and trucks in general?

Basic, simple and fairly inexpensive, it wasn’t good for better mileage, 1-2 mpg if you were careful and only added minor HP and torque figures. It was a first step and I applaud the ideas and effort behind the truck.

It does represent once again however, the failure of GM and the industry at large to move ahead with technology. In a ‘work truck’ the added power and torque from an electric system is most welcome. The added benefit of fuel savings is the cherry on top.

How is it that at the complete other end of the scale, Ferrari, Porsche and McLaren have all recognized and utilized the power of hybrid systems to enhance the performance of their top tier cars and GM can’t or doesn’t seem to even want to implement such technology. Particularly in a vehicle that desperately needs the performance gains, mainly via the torque but would greatly improve the fuel economy of said vehicle?

The argument over increased cost I’m simply not buying anymore. When the sales of Silverado High Countries are through the roof with a starting price just north of $50K, starting price, then that argument goes right out the window for me.

Technically I simply do not understand the opposition and at times resentment, towards improving capabilities and performance and saving at least some fuel with a hybrid system when it comes to trucks, and in particular, pick ups.

Am I wrong and do real truck people, those who actually need a truck and use it for it’s intended purpose, actually like the idea of a new hybrid Silverado/Sierra? I really want to know and NO, I do not work for GM in any capacity what so ever!

Thanks for reading.

CB > Groagun 02/25/2016 at 17:28

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I heard the people liked these because it was convenient running things off of it and not killing the battery as quickly as one would with a normal truck. Also, consider the benefits of having electric motors for your truck, and how that instant torque would help with towing.

But yeah, I think hybrid trucks are a pretty alright idea.

Gone > Groagun 02/25/2016 at 17:29

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Hybrid trucks are brilliant - city and highway mpg the same is a huge deal...but

How could anyone forget these brilliant decals?

Even the trucks:

*barf*

-this space for rent- > Groagun 02/25/2016 at 17:31

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Wasn’t the 2mode hybrid in the trucks basically a scaled down version of the system they put in transit busses?

HammerheadFistpunch > Groagun 02/25/2016 at 17:31

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FYI the 2-mode hybrid system was a joint project between GM, BMW, Chrysler, Daimler and others. Its basic technology is still used in the X6 active hybrid and...it was not simple, clever, but not simple. I think the problem with the hybrids is that they were a lot more money for minor gains, though they are generally reliable. Its interesting that GM is reviving the concept but to me they loose a lot of the main benefits of the 2 mode system with this mild setup. With the 2-mode system the 2 MGU’s on the 4 speed planterary could simulate a [relatively] infinite number of ratios like a CVT but without a belt. This is almost exactly how the new LC500h 4speed/hybrid system will work (likely)

Groagun > -this space for rent- 02/25/2016 at 17:34

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From Wikipedia

“GM launched a hybrid version of the Silverado/Sierra in 2004, becoming the first ever GM hybrid passenger vehicle. Known within GM as the Parallel Hybrid Truck or PHT it is not actually a parallel hybrid by the current definition, but a type of micro hybrid design. The electric motor housed within the transmission flywheel housing, serves only to provide engine cranking/starting, battery charging, and powering accessories. The engine automatically shuts down as the truck comes to a stop and uses 42 Volt electric power to the starter/generator unit to restart the engine as the brake pedal is released. Besides the typical 12 V automotive battery the PHT uses three additional 12 V valve regulated lead acid ( VRLA ) batteries mounted under the rear seat to store and provide power. The truck uses a 5.3 L Vortec 5300 V8 for primary propulsion power. These trucks were also purchased back from customers for more than what they were worth in the late 2000s.

The PHT features four 120 volt 20 amp AC outlets, two in the bed and two inside the cab under the rear seat. These are particularly interesting to the building/construction contractor market, since they often require AC power when on the job. Additionally, the extra reserves of power for the accessories make this truck well-suited to that market, where trucks often sit at idle for hours at a time.

Availability was extremely limited at first, with commercial buyers getting the first allotment. Later in 2005, the truck was offered at retail in Alaska , California , Florida , Nevada , Oregon , Washington and Canada. For 2006-07 the truck was generally available to retail buyers throughout North America. The Parallel Hybrid Truck was discontinued for the 2008 model year with the release of the GMT900 truck line. Starting in 2009, General Motors offers a second generation Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra equipped with a Two-Mode Hybrid powertrain and 4-speed CVT . [8]”

DoYouEvenShift > Groagun 02/25/2016 at 17:35

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Hybrid trucks do a good job of bringing up the CAFE numbers. Youll get more by going from 15 to 20 in a truck than 35 to 40 in a small car. At least I think that was part of their plan. But I may be wrong who knows.

Groagun > HammerheadFistpunch 02/25/2016 at 17:36

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Plus 1 for you sir, dropping the knowledge.

StingrayJake > Groagun 02/25/2016 at 17:36

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Ever since my church youth director got a Prius when I was in junior high, I’ve always thought a hybrid pickup truck would be a good idea. That’s a segment that would really benefit from improved fuel mileage — though by design (it’s a brick on wheels) it’ll probably never see a massive gain. And you make a good point about torque.

I guess it comes down to the fact that stereotypical (and arguably average) pickup buyers still view hybrid vehicles as environmentally-friendly hippie cars. The benefits of a hybrid system really are of little concern to somebody who has a backward view of hybrids to begin with. It reminds me of the South Park episode where they make fun of Prius drivers for being smug. It’s an image thing.

Besides, how am I supposed to ROLL COAL, BABY, in my wimpy hyrbid truck?

Groagun > DoYouEvenShift 02/25/2016 at 17:37

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Based on sales numbers you are correct.

MonkeePuzzle > Groagun 02/25/2016 at 17:37

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that circuit board background is badass!

HammerheadFistpunch > -this space for rent- 02/25/2016 at 17:38

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yes

Groagun > MonkeePuzzle 02/25/2016 at 17:39

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Yeah I thought it was cool, a nice little touch

Tareim - V8 powered > Groagun 02/25/2016 at 17:39

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what’s an xybrid?

StingrayJake > Groagun 02/25/2016 at 17:43

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Wonder if a proper hybrid system would be better in a Colorado. It’s lighter and seems to be a bit more aerodynamic than the brick Silverado.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Groagun 02/25/2016 at 17:45

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I like how they made a hybrid Escalade as well.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > HammerheadFistpunch 02/25/2016 at 18:20

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The second gen Volt actually uses something similar - two electric motors - one acting on one of the planetary gears in the transmission, essentially turning it into a CVT. Some smart stuff going on there.

HammerheadFistpunch > BaconSandwich is tasty. 02/25/2016 at 18:25

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yup, clever stuffs!

BaconSandwich is tasty. > StingrayJake 02/25/2016 at 18:26

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Another area I see a hybrid doing very well is something like a Jeep - excellent low end torque for rock crawling, and the ability to plug in things like electric coolers while out in the middle of nowhere.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > CB 02/25/2016 at 18:27

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The problem with these is that it is a pretty mild hybrid system goes, as far as hybrids. Think glorified starter motor. It’s not like it was really contributing a lot to actually getting the vehicle moving, at least not to the extent of something like a Prius, where the electric motors alone have enough power to get the vehicle up to a certain speed.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Tareim - V8 powered 02/25/2016 at 18:28

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It’s kind of like an Xzibit.

BigBlock440 > StingrayJake 02/25/2016 at 19:35

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Because gas trucks roll coal...

JRapp: now as good as new again > Groagun 02/25/2016 at 19:35

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Sort of related.. spotted on a coworkers Jeep:

StingrayJake > BigBlock440 02/25/2016 at 19:40

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Huh?

Groagun > JRapp: now as good as new again 02/25/2016 at 19:45

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Totally related and for reasons I will let you figure out in your head and hopefully not in front of your co-worker=)

facw > Groagun 02/25/2016 at 19:45

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I think you have to consider that while there are tangible benefits to buying a hybrid, a lot of those are significantly offset by the higher price. A lot of the hybrid demand is about image. A lot pickup truck sales are also about image. But the image is a very different one, so I have doubts about how many truck buyers actually want a hybrid.

At some point I think hybrids will become less of an “eco” product and just be used in cars to maximize some aspect of performance. Much like turbochargers are no longer the mark of performance cars, you’ll see them just as often to allow lower displacement engines with better gas mileage than a similarly powered NA engine.

BigBlock440 > StingrayJake 02/25/2016 at 20:03

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Besides, how am I supposed to ROLL COAL, BABY, in my wimpy hyrbid truck?

ly2v8-Brian > Groagun 02/25/2016 at 20:08

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The failure was that few bought it. Best part about it was that you got 120V outlets in the box.

StingrayJake > BigBlock440 02/25/2016 at 20:20

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It was a joke.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Groagun 02/25/2016 at 21:27

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the problem is look at what constitutes a typical work truck on a construction site. Usually 2wd, with a v-6 and no interior options. Maybe a v-8.

adding 5-10k is a deal killer as these vehicles are going to be abused by people who don’t car. (dr zoidberg the exception http://oppositelock.kinja.com/two-drug-addic… )

Whats the fastest car in the world? A rental car

and whats the fastest offroad vehicle? your bosses truck

I do know of someone who bought one in 2007. It sat for a long time on the lot and got the hybrid for the price of a regular truck. the plugs came in handy.

RutRut > Groagun 02/26/2016 at 08:31

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Stereotypical truck owner response=”It adds cost I don’t want for more stuff to break and go wrong that it will cost an arm and a leg to fix.”

I work in alternative fuel system development for medium and heavy duty trucks (thanks UPS!) and even then most people are hesitant to change things because it does add cost and complexity for repairs, it adds training needs too. Remember Quadrasteer pickups from GM? Those were cool when they worked and expensive to fix when they didn’t so that died off real quick. Also, I would never buy a 2wd truck (yes Oppo, I understand winter tires) living in Michigan.

I will go back in my corner and play with my diesel now.

Groagun > RutRut 02/27/2016 at 13:52

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I think your argument is right but it misses part of the equation. Part of my dismissal of ‘that’ cost argument is that the average truck buyer now seems to be totally fine with a $50K pick up.

Without hybrid systems or quadrasteer, forgot about that one, the price has gotten so out of hand and no one seems to care and most seem just happy to pay the price. The cost per value equation argument is total BS!

Again, your not wrong but, the money argument is a total non factor too me and the challenges moving forward for manufacturers and companies like UPS, something I know a great deal about, are ever increasing and solutions will be mandatory, not optional, in the very near future.

RutRut > Groagun 03/04/2016 at 10:22

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I think you are focusing on the wrong costs. Most people finance a vehicle and can swallow $50k since it is financed over 5 (or more now) years. The cost people will freak out about is repair and maintenance since that is typically out of pocket.

Groagun > RutRut 03/04/2016 at 13:31

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I think you’re right but we also have this now:

http://jalopnik.com/losses-from-au…

Good luck to all of us.